Your Outside Mindset Podcast Episode #15

In this episode psychotherapist and Zestful Aging Podcast Host talks about her reasons for getting outside and how she helps her clients to take an “aesthetic walk” outside. Nicole says by taking outside breaks you are respecting  and resting  your brain — so you can feel better mentally and physically.

Nicole Christina is the host of Zestful Aging Podcast, an interview show heard in 92 countries. She’s also a psychotherapist of 30 years, specializing in eating disorders.

Nicole’s guests are change makers from a variety of disciplines; filmmakers, writers, advocates, poets, musicians, Arctic researchers, athletes and entrepreneurs, many of whom are experts in their fields. The Show has a humanitarian focus, and looks at the importance of leaving your own legacy. Leaving a legacy is a way of contributing to the common good, which has shown to have a significant impact on aging well. 

Find out more at  ZestfulAging.com.

Nicole Christina practices in Syracuse, NY, in the Syracuse University area. She specializes in food and body issues, mindfulness, and positive aging.

I love her Podcast Zesful Aging, so much so that I asked Nicole if I could be on her podcast before I started mine. There we learned how much we both loved and needed nature. ​I will link to that podcast on my website Treesmendus.com

Nicole Christina in addition to being a podcaster, you are a psychotherapist. How does nature and your outside mindset figure into the way you treat clients?

I have an example of a client I had yesterday. He was struggling like many people are these days, feeling very isolated. They were not able to do the things he normally does well – getting together with people, doing the hobbies that they normally do. Our lives are all up ended now. I asked him what has he been doing in terms of getting outside. I am not talking about a fitbit, 10,000 step walk, I talking about what I call “an aesthetic walk” which is just walking around for the value of being outside. And a lot of the value I learned from your book, but a lot of the value I don’t think we truly understand. But we know that we are outdoor creatures, that we evolved to be outside, and that not getting sunlight, not getting near trees, grasses… and just being in your apartment is going to cause trouble. It is going to make feeling bad even worse.

So one of the prescriptions I gave him, and this is just a first session – and this is a guy who is pretty athletic –  “I just want you to go on an aesthetic walk, you are not trying to increase your cardiovascular level, the whole point is to go outside to feel good: your body, your spirit, and of course we know it helps mood, anxiety, and emotional regulation. So that is sort of a basic prescription that I use for people who come to me and say “ I feel terrible; I am anxious.”

It is not to say a walk around the block is going to cure everything. It is not going to cure Covid, worry about starting college, being scared, or solve the economic crisis, but it sure helps. And it is free, and we know it works. So that is something that is a go-to for me when I am evaluating someone, one of the questions I ask them is how often do you get outside?

That is a long winded answer, but some of these things are basic. And I have been in practice for a long time, so I know to start with the fundamentals. I also ask how much coffee are you drinking? If the answer is I drink 12 cups and I am anxious, well maybe we should start there. Or I stay in my apartment, or I stay up until 2 in the morning watching Netflix…I mean there are certain things that we know our body needs – fresh air, fresh water, a decent diet, and limiting a lot of the toxins that come in (and that is literal and metaphorical).

We need to be outside. Nobody comes back from a walk and says I wish I had not taken a walk.

I love your term “an aesthetic walk.”

Yes, you are looking at the clouds, you are not doing anything, you are putting yourself in a situation where your body and your mind can take a little break from the constant stimulation that is coming in.. and just rest. Just go back to a quiet reset of “ok I am in my body again.”

Are there particular nature experiences that have had an impact on you?

Yes. Many years ago I went to Washington State. You may be familiar with the Orcras islands? They are a series of islands in the Pacific Ocean. They are like Martha’s Vineyard and those kinds of islands. There are a lot of state parks there and they have orcas going through these channels. And you can take boats and you can get out very close to the islands. When we were out there, and this was a long time ago, I saw an orca mom with her orca calf pressed up against her. I was so moved. It was absolute joy and a feeling that this is something not many people get to see in the wild. These are huge majestic animals and there she was with her calf swimming right up against her.

And there was another one, but it is pretty hard to top that. There is quite a big piece of wooded land near where I live.  I hike there with my dogs quite a bit.. and I know that there are lots of critters in that forest. I sat down on a piece of granite to meditate out there. This is something I typically do out there. This was daylight. I was deep into meditation, and a big owl came over. They have such a big wing span and it just stood on a branch pretty close to me. And just watched me.

I just like being in the woods. What I say to my clients is, you don’t have to hike a Mount McKinley  mountain, or go to Nepal. This is not about extreme outdoors where you are living on tree bark or sucking water from moss. I live in a suburb of Syracruse and there is plenty of nature here. It is not old growth forest, but it is woods. I take my dogs, it is quiet. I smell the scents, and I just luxuriate in the quiet. So it is not like I am sleeping out there in a sleeping bag. It is just part of my day to go outside and do something that is not in the car, or in the city. It is just like wow look at these trees.

Our Canadian poet Lorna Crozier writes about this thing of being seen by wildlife. We don’t have the language for that.

There is a very old cemetery outside of Syracruse. In the 1800 they used to take picnics there. It is beautiful. And there are a lot of red tail hawks there. Sometimes they will just be perched on a branch. And I like to stand there and look at them. It feels like an electricity between us. I don’t speak that language but I do feel the connection. And I do try to keep my mind clear of “oh I wonder if that is a male or a female? And where are they nesting?” It is just being with that animal and saying, “I see you.” And just be quiet and breathe in that experience. Here I am. There you are.

Why is nature and an outside mindset important to you?

I learned a lot about the technical aspects of what going outside does for us from your book and others. But I did have this ritual when I was at a very painful place in my life, I would go into the forest – and I am a knitter, so I would take yarn and tie it around the trunks of the trees. I don’t know what it really meant and I didn’t know that I was getting all of these aerosols that were making me happy.  I am not a researcher like you are, and you can look at biomarkers, but all I knew is that this was calming in a way that watching a movie or even knitting, or napping, or baking muffins was not. It just hit me in a deeper spot. I didn’t know all the science but all I knew was that I craved it when I had too many clients and I could not get out. When I am away from the trees, I feel raw, off balance, like I have not had a good sleep or something. It just does not feel right if I do not get outside. So it has always been a comfort to me. I spent a lot of time in New Hampshire and the smells are different, the wildflowers are different, the rocks are different. I am connected to it in ways I do not always understand.

When did you first realize you felt a connection to nature?

As a kid, I grew up outside of New York city but we had a summer house in New Hampshire in a pretty remote spot. And I think I just took to it. I remember the quiet, the animals, the mountains I had not seen before. I have always loved animals so that is direct connection. If we had not spent the that time in New Hamsphire I never really would have known about it.

So you are in New York now?

When people hear New York they think Central Avenue. But I am in upstate New York in the Finger Lakes region. That is pretty close to Toronto. So much beauty here. I can get to a beautiful place to walk in 15 or 20 minutes. The only concern, and I think everybody has to be aware of this, is the wood ticks. I have some places I know I can take the dogs off the leash. Some people go to church, but I guess that is the way I fill my spiritual cup.

Your Dogs Are Part of Your Outside Habit?

You also have the cold and wet weather coming from Lake Ontario in November to May to deal with. So to say “hey it’s sleeting I need to get out – is only possible if you know your dogs need to go out is a great motivator.

Has getting outside close to trees helped you through particular tough times?

Yes, I went through a pretty unpleasant divorce. And I just kind of made this up and I am sure other people have done thr same thing.  In the evening, work was done, and I was left alone with my thoughts. I used to go outside and look the stars. And that made me think, I am really small here….what I am going through feels really big, think it won’t resolve, and that I am in pain… and I you look up at the stars and think wow, the stars that I am seeing may not even be there anymore – in terms of the light years. I see myself as a teeny tiny fleck in this universe really helped to put things in perspective.

And then being by water. Most people feel really soothed by that. We have a reservoir near us with a stream that the dogs love to swim in. In fact we are going to go there tonight and just wade around. And it is just lovely – like mini vacation for your spirit.

I am still just flabbergasted that you can take a seed, put it in the ground and you can have a zinnia garden.

And when I am walking by that stream, I know that some of the plants are invasive, and it is not all pristine, but I think here I am in nature that is so intelligent, so much I don’t understand, and that there is a world out there that has nothing to do with my trials and tribulations. It is just doing its thing out there. Stuff is going on in the earth. It helps me to take a step back and see where you are walking and the wonder that is going on.

My friends will say, “do you want to take a walk?” and sure I will take a walk, but it is not the same. In that Oakwood cemetery that I go to, I sometimes I like to sit on a rock and just be quiet and still. My friends are wonderful and they are nature buffs too, but there something about being alone and to just quiet the system down. It just seems like a very important way to take care of one’s self in a very deep and elemental way. And we know we mental health, it helps everything. It helps anxiety, diabetes, metabolism… it is like a miracle drug.

Yes botanist, chemist, Diana Beresford Kroeger says every time we go outside we get something different – we get what we need at that time.

I love that. There is a lady near me who’s entire front yard is a rose garden. It is not particularly laid out in an organized way, but it is lovely to look at and think about. 

I think you have given us all your tips and that you do get outside a lot every day?

I do, my line of work, psychology is hard and people are really suffering. And because you care about them, you too take on a lot of suffering. You know, coming from the medical field, that you can’t take that on for too long without having some counterbalance. So getting outside for a walk is like a detoxification. It’s like people can abusive and hurt one another, but here I am, and there is a snapping turtle. Wow. It is a wholesomeness that I really have to take in because otherwise it is too painful. Yes restorative therapy.

Is there anything you wished I would have asked you Nicole?

Just to say it again, people will say “I don’t have enough time, its cold out..” and I totally get that, but what I would say is that this doesn’t have to be fancy. You don’t need a fit bit or fancy clothes, you can just go and take a walk around your block, and if you walk there often enough you will notice “hey that tree looks different today or that grass…There was some research done in New York, and you are probably familiar with it. They would go to this little patch of grass. As a mindfulness exercise they visited it to see how it changed. To notice those tiny changes really makes a difference – to have that aspect in your life. This noticing is vital to mental and physical health. I can’t advocate for getting outside enough.. even if it is just stepping outside and noticing where the sun is where the birds are.. I think to myself that the birdsong is just for me. And then go home and get back on your computer and you will feel much better.

I am also a pretty serious tennis player, and I will stop our play if a red tail hawk flies overhead. For me it checks all the boxes, I am outside, with my friends, and I am improving my skills. We go out and play in all kinds of weather. It is so important, we need to be with others. Being alone too much is not only unpleasant, it is dangerous. So when I am with my people, my tennis friends I will say “there is no place I would rather be than here with you. And I just want to express my gratitude.” And they will smile, and say “ok let’s play haha.” I am feeling grateful that at 59 years old, I am out there still hitting the ball.

I do know that you like your walking poles like I do.

Oh it is such a nice activity and you know where I walk the terrain can get pretty rough with rocks and slippery slopes…my poles have saved me many times from wiping out. It just feels good. When I travel, before covid, I have a little fold up pair.

It is recognizing that our brains need a rest. Online and even talking to someone all day is constant stimulation and your brain needs to rest. And going outside is a way of just respecting that your brain needs a rest.

Thank you Nicole this has been great. Listeners do as Nicole Christina suggests use your time outside as  your personal therapy.  Pick something  that you can really enjoy doing outside and make it a self care  habit. Check out Nicole Chrisitna’s acclaimed podcast ZestfulAging to be inspired by what is possible in our lives especially as we age.

Listeners thank you for listening to the end. Check out my book Take Back Your Outside Mindset: Live Longer, Prevent Dementia, and Control Your Chronic Illness. Go to my website Treesmendus.com for more free resources. Please rate, subscribe and review this podcast episode to show your support for this show.

Please remember that when you are outside noticing, you are restoring your attention without any effort and you are smoothing out your emotions. This is such a good thing – because if you ask me, we all need a little more of Your Outside Mindset.